Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Tea with Br I'm trying to live my life I just need space to grow I'm just trying to make it right these people won't let me go I'm just trying to live my life I just need space to grow I'm just trying to make it right these people won't let me go Let me grow, let me go, Let me grow, let me go they should know, they should know they should know, they should know I'm just trying to live my life I just need space to grow I'm just trying to make it right.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Welcome to the Tea with Bri. I'm your host, Bri. Thanks for listening. The Tier 3 podcast is focused on deep, honest and vulnerable conversation. Each week I sit down with a different guest in order to have those conversations. Every week I start my guest's bio and in turn to how we know each other and then we'll go into a deep dive conversation about whatever topic they brought to me that week. This week I enjoyed by my guest, Elise Kennedy. Elise uses she her pronouns is a therapist located in Austin, Texas who specializes in working with trauma, perinatal mental health and child and adolescents counseling. She has a private practice, Moving Parts Psychotherapy in South Austin where she sees children, adults, couples and families. She's also a mental health advocate who offers information accessibly through Instagram. And she has a new podcast which is one of the many things we'll be talking about today, but hello, friend. Hello.
We did it. We're here.
[00:01:45] Speaker C: We made it.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Saturday morning listen time is of the essence. Yes, you're back again. Which thank you for coming back again. You posted about your new podcast and I was like, we have to discuss. We also need to talk about your experience as all your identities living in the hill country of Texas because a time.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: So I'm just visiting. I'm still in Austin. I'm just visiting the hill country.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Close enough. A hop, skip and a jump.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: Close enough.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Neighbors, if you will. You know.
All right, so first I want to start with the podcast because I'm really excited. I've listened to the teaser. I'm waiting for episodes to drop. I'm already obsessed. So tell the people about this new endeavor.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: So our first episode did just drop.
We had some technical difficulties. It is hard to get a podcast up.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Yes, it is a literal job.
[00:02:38] Speaker C: Yes. But we figured it out after several hours.
So my best friend and I both went through these two big grieving years and she had lost her mom and I got a divorce and then she also got a divorce and I was excited, but obviously it's awful, and I'm sad for her. But we got to experience, like, this really cool new era of our friendship, of being single together.
And in our grief, we did some really intensive healing work.
So we are seeing a medium every few months.
I did some grief retreats.
We. Let's see. We did a channeling where a woman, like, ferociously moved crystals on a Ouija board and channeled her team of light. And we got some advice from the other side. And about a year or two ago, whenever the Renaissance documentary was in theaters, we met with a medium named Rev Meg, who told us to.
It was very unclear, but she told us to get to Facebook Marketplace to market ourselves. And we translated that because I don't know how much marketing we could really do on Facebook Marketplace translated that years later to mean we should do a podcast. So on our podcast, we're being really honest about our healing processes through both intensive therapy and these other modalities of healing that are a little wacky. And so we call it the Healing Journey because of Whitney Wild Rose from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.
When she was talking about her healing journey, she pronounced it hilling. And so we kind of adopted that word to mean, like, the. The deep grief and intense joy that you can experience in healing.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: It is. I've. There's so many things. First of all, you're both therapists, best friend therapists, both going to do through a divorce.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: I love that you're like, I was a little excited because I. As the. I'm always the single friend. And so obviously, and I want my friends to break up with their partners, but every time they do, I'm like, we can be feral together.
[00:05:29] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: And I appreciate that you have come back to this side of never settling. Thank you so much.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Well, shepherd, you in?
[00:05:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I thought about. You've talked a lot about the trash of the apps.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:47] Speaker C: Garbage. I had never experienced it firsthand.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Welcome.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And so then I was like, okay. At first it's fun, and then it's kind of sad. And I was like, I know what Bri is talking about.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: I tell people. I'm like, I don't need to make it up. It is. It is awful enough. And. And it was funny. I was talking to someone the other day, like, it's every person I've ever been involved with or dated, seriously, I've met in real life, like, in passing or at an event or through friends, and so the apps mean nothing to me. And I don't take them seriously. And I don't think they're going to be the way I ever find my long term partner. And so I've told my friends, like, I just find the joy in it. Like just be feral. There's no, there's no reason to take this seriously. Also, I've currently decided I'll probably never date assist hetero man again in my life. And so talking on my girlfriends who only date men, I'm like, my, I pray for all of you daily. Because my friends like being straight. Being straight has to be a choice because who would do this? I was like, you guys, I'm telling you, the best thing I did was like, you know what? I'm not gonna limit myself. And also the crap we let men get away with.
I was like, you guys, what is what we hold so much power and here we are just handing it over. So keep me posted on your. On your app journey. I'm here for moral support because I.
[00:07:13] Speaker C: Don'T know if you follow this gentleman, the flirt coach on Instagram.
He like says like, I'm a gay Libra and he gives dating advice and we have him on the podcast fun.
And that was like a really fun episode. But being a therapist, like, we're also. I can't stop thinking about how dating apps have completely changed how we connect with people. And like that. I know it's just a tool, but it also can make our connections very disposable.
Like, of course, like sometimes you're just not feeling it and you have to cut it and that's okay. And it might be somebody you're not interested in seeing again, but to start to build connections with people and then to have it just end in a disrespectful way is very fucked.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I think about the instant. It's the instant gratification and the ability to just like you're saying, like, just let it go. Like, I especially having dated or use the apps in Austin, for me, I hated them because they're just so disconnected. Like, you're not cute enough. You're not this enough. And I'm like, I was like, I, I was always like, I will not swipe right on someone who does not have anything in their bio. Because I'm like, your looks are gonna fade over time. Like, we're not all gonna look like this the rest of our life. But if you that told me that you think you're hot enough to not have to say anything. And I'm like, I care so much more about your mind than what you look like.
And so there's always. There's that and, like, the instant gratification of living in a major city and someone's always moving there. And I was like, no, no. Like, no, no. I'm. I'm especially being in now my mid-30s.
I was like, oh, no. Like, the age range I would put on people. And then, like, I just. I got very specific about what I was looking for. And everyone's like, you're picky. I was like, yes, I get to be picky. Like, your partner is a reflection of you. Like, you get to decide who you want to, like, be together with. And I'm like, I can't. You're not going to be embarrassing me. Absolutely not. And so I just. Yeah, but the instant gratification and the ghosting, like, the avoidance of, like, I'm such a direct. I'm from the northeast. I'm such a direct person. Like, you will never have to guess how I'm feeling. And so for people to ghost, like, there's this British dude I had matched with, and, like, we had a great. We were having a great conversation. I'm a grown up. He came over one night. We just made out. It was great.
And then he just, like, ghosted me. And I'm just. And I messaged him, and I was like, hey, I'm not sure if something happened. We were literally making out the other day, and now you're not talking to me. He just never responded. And I was like, okay. And my friend's like, well, because you were way hotter in person than he was. And I was like, that's also very. I was like, thank you for that. But just like, that sort of stuff. Like, be a grown up. Just say you're not interested. Like, one of my best friends, Kristen, she just moved to California, and she's just always like. She sent a text to a dude the other day, like, hey, hey. I just want to make sure we're communicating on the same level of respect to each other. I'm really interested in moving forward, but the way that you've changed it up, I just want to make sure we're still on the same page. And I was like, what a grownup. What a novel idea. She's like, I would rather know than, like, spiral for the rest of the days. And I was like, absolutely. I go, but I think we've been conditioned to just be okay with ghosting. And I'm like, that's just so rude. Like, it's just inconsiderate of other people's feelings.
[00:10:48] Speaker C: My first person that I dated for, like, an extended period of time after my divorce ghosted me after dating for five months.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Absolutely not.
[00:10:59] Speaker C: And I was more up than I was with the breakup of my marriage. Because with ghosting, we have no answers. Somebody just goes away. And so it's so jarring to your attachment system.
And, like, it open. I'm kind of, you know, there's never a silver lining. But it pushed me into, like, some really deep healing work around my anxious attachment, which was important for me, But I could not believe that. And then he zombied me a few months later.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: No, Block him.
[00:11:42] Speaker C: No, I did.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: That's my other thing. I always want to tell people, like, I am the queen of boundaries, because I will just block you. I will tell you that I'm blocking you. But, like, my trauma is, like, I tell people, like, I don't talk to my own father, and my mom died when I was 15. Like, there is no. I have no.
I will drop you like a bad habit. But I'll tell you why. Like, so, like, these. These two men in particular, that I just, when I moved back, like, stopped talking to both of them because they both lived in the northeast, and they were just really out of pocket. And I was like, hey, we clearly have had a miscommunication. Boy A, I was like, unless you would like to upgrade to, like, a romantic prospect, I'm really good. Like, he had sent me a very disgusting text, and I was like, this is not okay. This little half ass apology you're trying to give me. Not okay, so you will no longer. I'm like, you will never hear from me again. I promise you. I go, you're not blocked yet, but you could be.
And then the other person, Friend. Boy B, we have had a very tumultuous relationship. And so the other day I got some news about him from a friend. So I called him and. And so. And we hadn't talked in, like, five months. And I was like, hey, I heard this thing happened. I just wanted to check on you. Um, and he's like, oh, like, I've been texting. I'm like, I'm aware I haven't answered. I. That. No, we're not there. I told you I was mad at you. I'm still mad at you, but I care about you as a person. So here's this. And so we hang up the phone, and then he texts me a couple hours later. He goes, so are we back to, like, texting and being a friend? I Was like, no, like, I think the work that you're doing, you've done the last 5 months should be separate of me. And I just, like, don't think we need to be in communication. And then he sent me back this whole thing of like, yeah, like, I have to make space for myself and do it. I was like, you were literally just asking me to be friends again. So you're not about to, like, gaslight me into thinking that I made this up. I just didn't respond. Like, the power of just not responding is just so healing for me. I'm like, not everything requires a response. You can just. Just move on. Everybody have a boundary. Blocked them. As my friend Brittany says, blocked and blessed. Like, you don't have to interact with the nonsense. So, yes. Because not that he ghosted you and then zombied and then just wanted to act like everything was all hunky dory.
[00:13:51] Speaker C: So nuts. But I also think, like, I know you have really rich friendships in your life. I have really rich friendships in my life. I've been enjoying, like, just being in my sexuality in a new way.
And if I was going to seriously date someone, they would have to add something to my life because I'm good with the deep relationships that I have through friends.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a. I was. I literally posted on Valentine. Valentine's Day, which was yesterday, lol.
But I made this post and just in my stories of, like, I have learned about true, deep love from my friendships way more than I ever have in any of my romantic partnerships. Like the unconditional, supportive, call you out on your bullshit, I'm going to stand by you through this hard time sort of love. And so I, as, again, as the quintessential single friend, like, I have had the joy of watching my friends find their partners and, like, partner off and have a life and have kids and then, like, becoming friends with their partners, both men and women and people along the gender spectrum of just, like, you never have to settle and you can fall in love with your life separate from a partner, which I think, you know, I've seen some friends who've gotten married and I'm just like, this. This is the partner you're picking. And I'm like, is it out of fear? Is it out of, you know, you don't think there's enough, like, the. The absence of abundance, which I can't think of that scarcity. I was like that from a scarcity mindset. And I'm just like, I am so grateful that I've done The work to be my own friend and to have healthy friendships and to be very specific about what I'm looking for, because I've just seen too many people, specifically fantastic women just settle out of fear.
[00:15:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Through our experience doing a podcast together, Lindsay and I have come into these ruptures in our friendship that we've never experienced before. And to be able to navigate it, it's never a fight. Like, to be able to have her say, like, hey, this hurt me. Like, I felt dismissed by you. And then for me to make the repair when she was ready and us to come back together is so beautiful and healing. And I think we like, rank romantic relationships as what we're supposed to strive for. But there can be so much healing, like, even attachment healing through our friendships and through getting a divorce. I've really been able to embrace my friendships in a way that I wasn't able to when I was married. And it's completely shifted how I view romantic relationships, too.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah. One of my best friends, Caitlin, got married four years ago, almost four years ago now. And we were talking about, like, her and her husband Johnny, who I love Johnny so deeply. But she was saying, like, why is there this village mentality when you have kids? But there's not a village mentality when you get married. Like, you're supposed to just, like, keep everything in. If, like, things are hard in your marriage, you don't talk about if things are, you know, she was like, I don't want to do that. She's like, we've been friends for so long. She says, yes, we're not married. There's some things I won't share. She like, but the thought of, like, you're supposed to just hold this little, like, precious egg and just never talk about it. And so, like, we've been, like, really good about, like, checking in for real. Like, how are you? How are things? They were going through, like, a really tough time for a while, and just being like, that's life. Like, you, you, you. You know, you don't have to be perfect. And I think that's the issue with, like, again, like, the Internet, too. Right. It's like, everything's supposed to make the highlight reels, and you're just talking about all the good things. And I. And I continue to stand by. Like, I post on my social. Like, none of this is real. Like, I'm gonna post the real vulnerable things of processing life and grief and trying to find a partner and, you know, having a tough time at work of just, like, this is all you don't have to be fake online. You get to be your full self and so show up fully. And like, you're saying with your friendships too. Of, like, I've told my friends, like, I will love you the deepest, which means I get to call you out very hard. Like, if you are entrusting me to be your friend, that is me, that means you're entrusting me to hold you accountable. And like, like you're saying with your friend. Me and Shelby, when we lived together, we would have like, tough conversation. Like, this really hurt my feelings. Or, you know, I would like to really address this. Or, you know, I know your intention wasn't this, but this is how this impacted me. Like, I think also friendships give us the space to work on communication because we, we test more in our friendships than we ever do in romantic relationships, which is another sidebar conversation I'd love to have one day with people.
Like, we don't give people enough space to grieve when friendships are over in the way we do when romantic relationships are over. I was like, some of the deepest heartbreak I've ever had is friendships just ending. Like, no one did anything wrong. We just. One just decided not to talk to the other. Or we just kind of drift apart. And I'm like, that, that's. That's a real heartbreak for me is whenever I just lose a friend and there's no conversation.
[00:19:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that's such an intense grief. And especially I think of friendships that have ended for me just because we changed and it was clear, like, we were no longer aligned. But yeah, no conversation about it just drifting apart.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And like, now that I've moved back, like, I have had. I have friends who I've known since I was like five, who I still talk to regularly. Had friends. Like, I went to college with, my friends from Austin. I still keep in touch with and I tell people. I think it's just like, it's an. Like I've said it before, it's an investment to be someone's friend. Like, how invested are you? How much time are you setting apart? And I tell friends all the time, like, I love you deeply. I'm just like in a very busy period of my life. Like, I'm a terrible texter now. I'm like, but call me. I will. I love a phone call. I love a FaceTime. Like, it's just so much easier. I'm like, I'm now a grown up. Texting is not.
I can't. I can't text when I can just call you, we can just connect and I can like pet you in my ear and I could walk around and get other things done at the same time. And so I'm just telling people, like, always, like, just call your people. Like, and I tell people, you could just call me if I'm busy. I won't answer, but I'll call you back. Like, there's just like so much joy and connection and hearing someone's voice, I think in such a Internet heavy space of like, no, like, literally hear your friends or, or they're like, now you can do audio messages. I'm like, oh, send me your little mini podcast via text. Let me know what's new. Because there's just. And I think also too, like, life just flies by so much. I was with my best friend from college last night. I was like, we've been friends for 17 years. Like the age we were when we met. Like, that's so weird that time just flies. And so, yeah, I'm just always like, just in just. I just love when friendships get to blossom and change and grow and we get to just be with our people.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: And like doing a podcast with your best friend, iconic. It's like a dream.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, and it's cool because I think a lot of people talk about how hard it is to meet people once you hit your 30s.
But I met her in my 30s and are we. I don't think we're past the seven year mark. I think when you. The research is like, when it hits seven years, you know it's going to be a friend for life. But obviously I know she's to be a friend for life, but yeah, I think one of my favorite things in podcasts, like, I definitely listen to solo podcasts, of course, because we love the tea with Bri.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:21:39] Speaker C: But I really like podcasts that are done by besties.
And getting to share our friendship through the podcast through feels really sweet. We're trying not to have too many of like our inside, inside jokes, like, because we want people to understand what we're talking about.
But it's been really sweet to be able to share our friendship.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: And then when y'all were talking like the trailer and you were saying that you want people to feel like they are sitting down with the two of you and like they're in your group. And I love that, like, there's this podcast I listen to called the Read and they've been on for 12 years. I love it because it's just so fun and they have such a shorthand you never feel like you're eavesdropping. It's like you're in that conversation with them. Or it's funny. Like, I'll have someone on my show who, like my best friend Charlie. He's like, I can always tell how long you've known someone based on the conversation. He goes, there's just like a lightness, like a levity. He's a versus, like, when it's someone like you've just known or someone who just decided to come on. And he's like, there's a little bit more joy. And I'm like, I love that because it's it. I truly.
Having a solo show is hard, don't get me wrong. But I do enjoy that I get to talk to someone new every time we sit and chat. And there's just like, you just never know. You never know where it's gonna lead. Like, there's like, you bring one topic and then you're like, oh, well, this. This came up. We talk about this. So I don't know. I'm excited from. From the trailer. I'm gonna listen to your podcast today on my way to work.
[00:23:11] Speaker C: Yeah, we're. We're going between having episodes that are us chatting about stuff and then episodes that are with guests. So we've recorded a good amount of episodes with guests, from like talking about grief to talking about dating to talking about Taylor Swift.
And so the ones. It's funny because the ones where we sit down and talk between us, I think we haven't quite found our flow yet. So we keep having to re record because we. When we're just chatting, there's no pressure.
And so we have to. I think we still have to find our flow. But I really enjoyed our first two. Our first two episodes are interviewing each other, and then later it'll be more conversational.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's fun.
Yeah. Listen, every time someone talks about grief, I'm like, police. Like, I want to write a book about grief. Like, I. My friend just asked me to guest write for her newsletter that's coming out next week. And she's like, you could talk about anything you want. We've been really focusing on Joy. I go, great grief. And she was like, okay, sure.
[00:24:25] Speaker C: I was going to actually ask you when you guessed on our podcast because you. We had talked about you being a guest on ours, doing an exchange, and I was gonna see if you would want to talk about grief. People don't always want to anytime.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: It is my friend Hallie, who's actually. Next week's Episode she's been on three times and we've talked about grief all three times. Like we are. She, she lost her mom last year.
We, we recorded actually on the 19th anniversary of my mom's passing. Wow. And then her mom just, they just hit her one year this week and her episode comes out next week. So just like a lot of kismet things happening. But yeah, I always tell people like we're separating the art from the artist is what I'm going to say. But the Harry Potter series was really important to me as a child. They talk about the last Peverall brother greeting death like an old friend. That's how I feel about grief. Like, grief and I have a very long, interesting relationship. And so whenever I talk about grief, I always say with like a capital G because I'm like, it's a person. Like to me grief is like a person, an entity, a thing that like I have had conversations with, I've yelled at, I've like stepped, like I've walked with.
And I think people just have such a negative connotation of grief of like, just move through it quickly. Like you don't have to. I'm like, no. Like there are so many different parts of grief and grieving and it's not this like you get six months to grief to grieve this thing and then you have to move on. All that to be said, Hallie. And I call grief like the, the never ending teacher or like the lifelong teacher. And I'm just like. Because it's always going to be in everything. Even if you don't like the grieving of like the life you thought you would have, the grief of like this relationship endings, you thought it was maybe the one or you know, the grief of like this friendship. Like there's just so many different things.
I've been really dealing with anticipatory grief lately, which everyone's like, you go to therapy? I go, yes, I do.
I am a deep therapy student.
But yeah, I just, there's, there's just so many, so many things we could talk about grief. So anytime I would truly, anytime I talk about grief.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: Well, one of the things that I came up against with like really being in a deep grieving period and like being in it with my best friend and being a therapist. It's like you think you know how to do grief, but none of us really do. Like, sure, I know to give myself the space to grieve and she knows to give herself the space to grieve and like for her she will Just take three hours to sit outside every day and just be with the birds. And for me, I did my grief baths, like, almost every night, and I would, like, give my grief to the water or like in the summer, I would go to Barton Springs, like, almost every day. And the water was really connecting for me with releasing my grief.
But we all have to grieve and process differently.
And we can read all the books on it, but you still don't know until you're in it. And we have to feel it or it gets stuck. But when we let ourselves really feel it and be in it, the cool thing is that we also have these, like, opposite moments of feeling intensely alive.
And so I think about the intensive healing I did with, like, grief retreats and stuff like that.
You know, there was a lot of tears and a lot of feeling your shit. But then that was also counteracted with.
I made it a point to go see a lot of live music. And I try not to just be filming the whole time and really be in it. And I would think about, when you go to see live music, you will never see that exact performance ever again. And it. It was the counterbalance of that aliveness. And same with going out dancing and stuff like that, going to drag shows.
So the grief is really tough to feel, but you get almost like this beautiful reward of feeling more present and alive than you've ever felt.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I was. As you were talking, I was like, grief has taught me how to be more present and take nothing for granted. Like. Like you're like that. That intense joy. I feel like yesterday I've. I blame the full moon. I'm also a Pisces, and I feel like that's really important. But yesterday, Valentine's Day, I was deep in my feelings as it is, and one of my really good friends announced that she's pregnant with her second baby. And it's a girl due on her birth due on her birthday.
The way I bald, like I'm about to give a birth, it was. I don't know what it was. Yesterday I was just deep in my feel. I text her because she posted on Instagram and I text her and I was texting with her about it and I was like, I am unwell. I'm just like, there's just. But I think. I think it's because I've been dealing with a lot of grief lately. So I think to experience this other side of joy at this at the same time and induct juxtaposition to deep grief work also starting With a new therapist, who is a delight. But, oof. You know, new therapist is. You got to break them in. So you got to, like, you gotta dump all your stuff at that. At the feet, and, like, this is what we're gonna talk about, and I need you to get up to date. But, yeah, it was just, like, so.
It was just such a beaut. Like, I. I used to be so, like, keep it together. You never cry. Hold it, like. And now I'm just like, I'm gonna go cry today. Because I feel like I used to schedule cries, like, once a year. I'd be like, we're gonna just cry during Christmas, and that's it. Like, that's your cry for the year. And I would hold on to that.
But, yeah, now I'm like, I do. I. Like, once a week, I think I need a good cry. Just if I'm watching a dog video or pregnancy announcements. Get. The other day was this girl who heard Nona just died at, like, 97. And so they got all the granddaughters together to give, like, out her jewelry and shoes. And she's a chef. And so they handed down her nana's pot, like, her sauce pot that she got at her wedding in 1956. And the way that girl cried, I cried. I was like, I have to get off the. Like, off the Internet today. It's just too much. Like, this is so beautiful, the pot. And, yeah, everyone's crying. Like, I'm crying anyway, so I'm just like, you guys just feel it all. Just let it over come you, like, what it was over. And, like. Like, you're saying, like, the cleansing of it. And I think about crying, like, that's my connection to water, too. I'm like, just let it just release. It's so cathartic. It's so good for you to cry.
[00:31:22] Speaker C: Yeah. I think there's something really cool, too, about having friends who are grief companions.
Of course. I spent Valentine's Day with Lindsay.
She's my wife, and we're obsessed with each other. But we had a little night out in the hill country, and then we came back to her house, and she was just sharing pictures of her mom, and we were crying together, and it was so sweet to be let in. I never got to meet her mom. I'm sure a lot of your friends never got to meet your mom.
And so I think it's really special to sort of get to meet her mom in this sense.
We've also worked with a medium, Tara, of Heartseed Healing, who's local to Austin, and we see her like every few months.
And through Tara, I've sort of gotten to meet Lindsay's mom on the other side, which is really special.
And I always tell Lindsay, like, it feels like we're high school friends or something and her mom is like looking in on us and like watching over us. And she always says she feels really connected to her mom through our dance parties. We. When she was moving back to Texas, we got really obsessed with Cowboy Carter, obviously, as everyone did, obviously.
And it like helped her reorient to moving back to Texas because she was a little bummed out to move back. But we just listened to Cowboy Carter over and over and just have dance parties with that last half of the album.
And she always feels her mom with us as we have those dance parties.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: I'm not gonna cry.
I just did my makeup. Elise.
Oh, gosh, no. That is so beautiful. And yeah, like, exactly what you're saying. Like when it was where it was something. A few months ago, I posted a picture of my mom or some. Something came up and everyone, like, everyone who had never seen a picture of her was like, you look just like her. Like, it is so, like it is deep. And then I also, like, I always find it funny because, like, I was 15 when she passed. Like, she wasn't a person to me. She was just my mom.
And so I didn't know her know her. And so my. I talked to my family and whatever. They're like, what are you up to now? I'm like, well, I'm moving back and I'm doing this. But I also like, considering this. And there's that. And they're like, you are her. Like, she would just pick up and move all the time. Like, she would just tell us that she was doing a thing and she would do it. And I'm like, it's so interesting because like, she, she raised me to like, do anything. She's like, there's no limit. You can do whatever you want.
You are independent and you can do these things. And so to hear that from like people who knew her, they're like, oh, no, no. Like, you definitely got that from her. I'm like, oh, that's so nice. So it's also that of like, people who knew her more than I did also sharing parts of her with me or like on the 10 year anniversary, I asked people like to share a memory with me about her. And there was a friend I grew up with in elementary school and she was like, I don't know if you know, like one Day on a field trip. Your mom saw I was having a tough time, and she just came and sat and held my hand. And I was like, oh, no. Like, just those sort of things are just like the little glimpses and. Because I went to an event that there was a medium at, and it was right after my grandma died, and so she was just like, there's two women coming through for you. And I was like, that's. Yes, that's unburned. She's like, one is really loud. I was like, that's my grandmother. She's like, she's with the other one. They're clearly connected. She's like, but the other one, she's like, this one just passed. I was like, yeah, my grandma, like, in the last couple of months, she's there together with your grandfather. I was like, oh, lovely to know. And she was just like, your mom's always with you. I was like, no, I. I know. Like, I know that, but it was just like. And there's like, something she brought up that she. Because sometimes I. I get skeptical. Like, I truly believe in all the things, like, as a girl who is crystals, who has done tarot, who has had her tarot read, and. But mediums, I'm always like, let's see. And then she bought up something. She's like, your mom wants me to say she's sorry about your dad.
And I was like, there is no way this woman would have known that until.
Yeah, so love a medium, everybody.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Yeah, we.
We always say with all of the woo woo shit, we will. We're always, like, one foot out of joining a cult.
We will try anything and we will laugh hysterically about it. But then we'll be sobbing. Like, one of the stories that we love to share, which I think we shared on our podcast too, is our first, I think, experience together was seeing this Reiki healer in Joshua Tree in, like, a residential neighborhood.
And this was like a white woman in a Prada bucket hat.
And we were like, this is nuts. And by the end of the Reiki session, we were just sobbing. She moved some energy around for sure.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Did her literal job, was like, hi, we're going to unpack this. Yeah, well, speaking of, like, traveling and everything, we need to quickly talk about your experience recently. Yeah, you being queer, you being a woman, you being a therapist, you being a mother. But you said when we got on that you had an experience last night and that. I want. I want to talk about it because I. I think the reason I've been having a lot of grief is because of this new administration. And no one's talking about it enough, especially as a person who lived in Texas. So I just want to touch base on that as well.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: Yes, I would love to talk about that because.
So I hold some marginalized identities, but most of my identities are easily kind of hidden because I'm white.
But I had never, and this was, of course, a huge privilege. I grew up on the east Coast. I come from a big Jewish community.
I had not experienced ever, like, being fearful of people knowing that I was Jewish or knowing that I'm pan until being in Texas.
And it's a whole different ball game being in the Hill Country. I don't live in the Hill country, but Lindsay lives here and grew up here. And I visit her often, touching a bit on the grief we're experiencing with the new administration.
I see a lot of clients who hold more overt marginalized identities than me. I work with a lot of queer folks, a lot of trans folks, and they are feeling the intense grief and also like an exhaustion, a shutting down, a fear. I think to feel attacked literally within the first day that this administration came back into power is such a hard hit.
My daughter goes to a school where it's mostly people of the global majority. Like, there are not a lot of white kids at her school.
And she just started sobbing one day in the car because she said, all my friends started crying today at school. And the counselor had to come talk to our class because we were afraid our friends were going to get taken away from us.
And seeing that from a nine year old's perspective and her asking me, like, what do we do? And I said, well, if something like that happened, like, we hold less marginalized identities than your friends. We are, we can hide and we would help your friends in whatever way we can. And she said, but mom, what if then you get taken away because we helped people?
And I was like, well, then that's what happens. Like, we have to do whatever we can.
And I think people like, I know a lot of my clients have been like, I don't know why I'm feeling like I'm having such a hard time doing things and I've been exhausted. And I'm like, because you're living in a marginalized body when there are literal attacks on you. Like, if you are one of the most marginalized people who is being attacked, rest right now. The people who hold less marginalized identities have to take on the work while you rest.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I. I have. So I was with my best friend last Night for. For Valentine's Day. Her fiance had plans, like, great, I can have her.
And she also is a white woman. And so we talk a lot about what we're going through because she's, like, a staunch ally of, like, people of color, of queer people, the whole thing. And so it has been so refreshing for me to just watch her be an online troll. But the good kind of like, yes, it's like, my favorite thing because she's just like, all of you are, like, rooting for rfk, who are, like, worried about Make America Healthy Again. Like, you're doing Botox, you did drugs in college, like, all these things. She's like, you're such a hypocrite. And it's just like, so, yes. Like, I just wanted to give that levity. But then, yeah, I mean, I tell people often of, like, of. Of my identities. Black and queer and a woman. English is my first language. I was born here. I'm educated. The overwhelm is real. Like, you can get so burnt out and so overwhelmed and have grief and become depressed. And, yes, I validate. Hold that. Hold space for yourself. Take care of yourself. But when you find the time to just educate yourself about what's going on, take in information in a way that is healthy for you. Finding reputable news sources that, you know, maybe don't scare you, but keep you informed. Because I think that's also the thing that this administration is doing, is it wants us to be fearful. It wants us to focus on the bullshit. Like the fact that 47 signed the executive order to take trans kids, trans girls, out of sports on Women's in Sports Day. And I'm like, it's not the trans women we need to be worried about. I've watched enough documentaries. When you said call, I was like, my people. I've watched enough documentaries about, it's the coaches, it's the doctors, it's the men in power, which is why women. Like, we worry about women in sports, right? Like, it's never been a trans woman. And then I read this thing online one day that, like, made me cry. I was like, it is. I never felt safer in a bathroom than when I was with the trans person or a queer person or at a gay bar. And I just. That was. I saw myself in that poem because, like, a lot of my growing up, my best friend was gay growing up. So I went. Would go to New York with him and, like, be in gay bars. And just like, I have never. I never felt scared at a gay bar. You know, I didn't come out until I was 26 and I was living in Austin, and it was. Right. I moved right before the Pulse nightclub shootings.
And just like. And that's when it came out. I was like, I. I want my family to know this part about me.
And that's. And that was just, like, so big for me, a very transformative part of my life. Just because, like, it. In an instant, anything can change. Right? And so we see with this administration of, like, literally staunchly talking about hate and people who are just, like, so okay with it. Like, there's a doctor who I was following on Instagram who was all for rfk, like, oh, we don't need to be on the same. We. I unfollow you. You unfollow me. And we're just gonna move along because I'm just like, you' doctor, what do you mean, you? So I just. I just feel like there's a lot of things that we're going to see in the next four years if. And I'm not being hyperbolic. If we don't find oursel in a dictatorship. Like, he is truly trying to tear apart the constitution along with Musk. But that's another conversation for another time.
[00:44:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah. When I came on, I was telling you about our little Valentine's excursion. And so we're both queer, Lindsay and I, and we definitely stand out in the Hill country because of our outfits.
But I had said earlier in the day, like, I need to take to a mic to sing some Gracie Abrams tonight.
And so I've got to get to a karaoke bar. I just need to do one song, and then I. I will be cleansed. Like, that's what I need for healing on Valentine's Day. And we went to a karaoke bar. It was all white people.
There were some bachelorette parties, a lot of men in, like, cowboy hats.
And immediately I felt, like, a little bit unsafe because of how we stand out. And also, we're like two women together on Valentine's Day. Like, you can make some assumptions.
And we went up to ask if they had Gracie Abrams. Unfortunately, they didn't.
[00:45:40] Speaker B: Weird.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: And I was like, should I do something from the Taylor Swift catalog? Like, what would be therapeutic? And I was like, what if we do Pink Pony Club?
[00:45:55] Speaker B: A new classic, Modern classic.
[00:45:57] Speaker C: And I. I imagine I was like, this is gonna be, like, the music video. Like, yes, we. We are gonna get on that stage, and suddenly, like, everyone is just gonna be joining in singing with us.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Sweet little friend.
[00:46:16] Speaker C: We're going to, like, walk through the crowd, and they will just embrace us, because Pink Pony Club has just brought people together.
And so they announce our names, and right before we get on stage, I go, wait a second. Like, should we be singing Pink Pony Club in this venue?
And she was like, it'll be fine. And she asked the bartender, like, has anybody performed Pink Pony Club here before? Because as people are going, I'm realizing, like, everyone's doing a country song. And then I was like, oh.
And. But, you know, we had had, like, two mezcal and sodas. And so we got up on that stage, I took off my jacket, I put my purse down on the chair, and I was ready. I see literally one person in the audience singing along.
One person. And the look on everyone's faces. Because Chapel Roan has brought a lot of attention to the queer community. And I think the way that she's used her platform not to elevate, like, queer white women, but to elevate, like, queer people of color and spoken out for trans folks and stuff like that, she's used her platform in a really powerful way. And she's always been unapologetic about being a lesbian.
And I love what she says about men, and men are embarrassing. Like, I'm sorry. Men are embarrassing.
But I have a feeling that these people knew Chapel Roan, and they were not happy to have two women up on the stage on Valentine's Day performing Pink Pony Club. They did not embrace us as they did in the music video, even though we did take a jaunt through the audience.
And I. After we got off the stage, I was like, that was actually terrifying. I think we should leave.
That was not, like, the Pink Pony Club music video.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: As a girl who also loves karaoke and finds it to be deeply therapeutic, I was like, that was my joke. I was like, karaoke is my therapy. Like, I would go once a week. When I first moved here, I probably went to karaoke every week.
[00:48:49] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: And would go at a gay bar, obviously.
[00:48:52] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: Sunday nights at Iron Beer and Show Tunes. Whitney Houston didn't matter. Just like, I'm gonna sing till I feel better. But, yes, I thank you for sharing that, because I think so many people just think of, like, overtly marginalized folks having experiences, and I'm like, no. Like, this administration has given everyone the right to just be an. And I think we talked about it on the last time you came on, too, about, like, being a Jewish person in Texas. And you just. I mean, you mentioned it earlier in this episode, too, like, it was growing up in the Northeast, it was never a thing you had to, like, worry about. But I think you mentioned it on the last episode of, like, going and finding, like, Jewish markets and Jewish, like, you know, businesses in Austin and in Texas in general is really difficult. And I'm like, yeah, like, Texas has a way of making you feel like you have to fit into a certain box.
And it's interesting because it's like, it has some of the most. The like, biggest and most diverse cities in it. And then you're just like, but outside those three cities, you better, like, be very traditional. And.
Yes. And like, the Hill country is like an hour outside Austin. Like, my topic. It's not far. Like, but that's the thing I often think about too. Like, after the insurrection, my friends and I were coming back into town and there was something at the Capitol and I was like, we cannot go downtown. Like, we cannot physically go because we just didn't know it was occurring. But I, like, I always give people that reminder of, like, people like, oh, we're safe. I'm like, austin is a bubble, but the bubble is breachable. And I just always want people to remember, like, your safety is most important. And not that you have to make yourself smaller, but I just think you should be able to keep yourself safe.
[00:50:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I.
Well, I think last time I was on it was maybe after I had been targeted by the right wing.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: I believe you are correct.
[00:50:44] Speaker C: And so I did shift my activism a bit after I was targeted because I got death threats and like, I was outed as, like, I'm. I openly talk about being Jewish, but when Ben Shapiro talked about me being Jewish, it was like he was outing me to hate groups.
And he had talked about it and like, he had said, like, well, I'm a Jewish person and I would never say this or something, but I think that was like a big wake up call. And I have a lot of privilege in how I can shift my activism.
And I also think when you've done a lot of work and you continuously do the work, it becomes woven into your system. So it's like very woven into my therapy practice. Like, we.
Most of the clinicians at my practice are queer.
A lot of them are people of color. We have some gender expansive clinicians, and that's always been really at the forefront of my practice. But I started to, like, it shook me to shift a little bit how I was integrating activism and mental health, especially on social media. And I think I kind of dipped out for a bit. I. I came Back to make some statements with the new administration on social media, because I feel like you can't be silent.
But it was scary. Like, literally getting death threats, literally being added to, like, a neo Nazi kill list and having children and being worried young children and being worried for their safety, too.
It. It really did shake me. And I think when I had that moment last night in the Hill country where I was just like, oh, these white men are really scary. Like, these white men do not like Chapel Roan.
[00:53:13] Speaker B: Well, they also want women to be silent. Like, you're not. You're supposed to be seen and not heard. But that's a.
That's a different. Which I feel like you and I don't subscribe to. So I'm like, no, that's just. No. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm just.
Yeah, I. I. Yeah, it's just. I'm like, there's just in. In to just see how. And that's like, the. The things online of, like, people, like, you really want to talk to someone who's a Trump supporter. I'm like, yes. Like, this is why, like, you cannot tell me that people who support. Sorry 47. I've refused to use this for. Would have lived in the same amount of fear if Kamala would have won.
Like, I'm like, you just didn't want a black woman who is educated to be the leader of the free world.
Obama was enough for you. We get it. We know. I'm like. But now, like, it's. I'm like, y'all are worried about the wrong shit. He did not lower the price of eggs.
Tariffs are really going to bust our ass.
Mexico, sick of us. Canada's sick of us. China's sick of us. Literally. You have Elon Musk basically running our country. And, like, you guys pay attention. Like, you bite your nose. Just bite your face. Like, it's just like, I want you. I need everyone to have some critical thinking skills because we're. This is really going to affect everything. Like, Medicare, like, the amount of tax cuts he's doing. I'm just like, okay. Just okay. Like, my friend Brittany, she's also like, now she just, like, nothing matters. Like, just spend the money. She's like, I'm going to Beyonce. If I have to spend a thousand dollars on tickets, I'm going. She's like, nothing matters. Everything is on fire.
[00:54:50] Speaker C: Well, to bring it to titrate from the horrors, I will say. I will say one thing about Chapel Ron and one thing about Beyonce, because I do want to titrate from the horse.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:55:03] Speaker C: But also, we can't eat the eggs because of bird flu. So what. What are we supposed to do? The eggs did not go down in price, and they're contaminated, so we just can't eat eggs. We can't have nice things.
I had told Lindsay, like, hey, I think we have to see Chapel Roan at acl.
It's gonna be a festival. Like, that's gonna be a lot for you. I know you're, like, an indoor gal, but I think it's gonna be really healing.
And the contrast of, like, being in a bar with probably all 47 supporters who don't listen to Chapel Roan versus experiencing, like, this entire crowd. And it was such a queer crowd. It was such a femme crowd.
Like, everybody was just dressed for the Pink Pony Club.
Everybody was wearing their pink, and it was just all the queer folks and women singing at the top of their lungs, and the men just looking confused.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: Oh, my favorite.
[00:56:16] Speaker C: And it was so beautiful and healing.
And then with Beyonce, I went to the Renaissance tour for my.
Was it my 31st, 5th, or 36th birthday? She was performing, like, on my birthday in Miami. And I went with my dad.
He's a big Beyonce fan, iconic. And when I saw the documentary, because it was such, like, an intricate, beautiful tour, and Beyonce, I think there are very few artists who.
Who are able to honor a community that they're not fully a part of, not appropriating from it, but honoring it. And the Renaissance documentary was so important because she shows how to go about that. Like, if you wouldn't know unless you're really, like, schooled on ballroom culture. The icons that she had on her album, and she made sure that they were treated as icons. And so when she did the Renaissance tour, she said, like, I wanted everyone to have a safe space to go to after Covid. And really, she meant, like, queer people and black people. Like, she said, I want you to feel safe when you come to my show, and I want it to be, like, the most magical experience you've ever had and to see all of the detail and layers that went in and how she oversees all of it. And she really honored ballroom culture. It was so beautiful and cool.
And, yeah, I can't wait for the Cowboy Carter tour. Obviously, I didn't get tickets, because that was terrifying, but I will find a way.
[00:58:30] Speaker B: I will be there eventually. I will be there.
Well, thank you for coming on. We've been on now for an hour. I like to be respectful of time, but as you know, you're welcome back anytime. I can't wait to come on at your show.
[00:58:44] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:58:44] Speaker B: So I can cry. I'm gonna cry. I know I'm gonna cry. I feel like I haven't met Lindsay, but I feel like Liz is gonna get me to cry, so. Well, I'm prepared.
[00:58:52] Speaker C: I think the. The mother lost in common is a powerful connector.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: I'm buckled up.
I am mentally preparing.
[00:59:05] Speaker C: I will be emailing you.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Okay, great. I can't wait.
As you know, at the end of every episode, I like to end with a palate cleanser question. And that question is, what is the best advice you've ever been given? Or what is a piece of advice you'd give to your younger self?
[00:59:25] Speaker C: So I think the advice that I would. I think I'm gonna choose the advice that I would give to my younger self.
I would tell her, like, just fuck it. Be exactly who you are and don't worry what other people think of you. It actually doesn't matter.
You got to be so present and alive within your life by just having joy in exactly who you are.
[00:59:59] Speaker B: That's it for this week's episode of the Tea with Bre. Be sure to follow the podcast on Instagram HEA with Bri. Send me an email at the tea with Bri gmail.com or visit the website the toothbrodcast.com youm can find me, your host, Brianna Jenkins on Instagram at Brianna Jenkins. Don't forget to rate, review and follow on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A special thanks to Mama Duke for our theme music, and I will catch you next time.
