Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Team with Bree.
I'm trying to live my life? I just need space to grow? I'm just trying to make it right? These people won't let me go? I'm just trying to live my life? I just need space to grow? I'm just trying to make it right? These people won't let me go? Let me grow? Let me go? Let me grow, let me go? They should know, they should know they should know, they should know? I'm just trying to live my life? I just need space to grow? I'm just trying to make it right? People won't let me go.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Welcome to the tea with Brie. I'm your host, Bri. Thanks for listening. The tea with Brie podcast is focused on deep, honest, and vulnerable conversation. Each week, I sit down with a different guest in order to have those conversations.
Every week, we'll swipe my guest's bio, an intro into how we know each other, and then we'll go into a deep dive conversation about whatever topic they brought to me that week. This week, I'm joined by my guest, Hallie Hunt. Hallie. He uses she her pronouns, currently works in operation support for an app that democratizes the concept of the traditional staffing agency and has done so for the last two years. She's a lover of writing, gardening, the outdoors to craft beer, board games, and dungeon and dragons. Now, Halle is back for a second episode because we're yappers, and that's what yappers do.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: That is what yappers do. Yes. Agree.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: We like to continue to talk about things and life and surroundings.
And so the other day, I was. And I'll link your first episode in the show notes, but it was so funny. I get, again, I'm thinking about moving. So I was like, I should go back and listen to that episode because we talked about finding home wherever you are. I'm like, wow, I should go back and reassess my life anyway.
[00:02:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
I actually relistened to that episode recently, and it made me really emotional, so I'm kind of glad.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Great. We're just gonna. We're just gonna cry all day today. It's fine.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: Just kind of be ready for that. Can be ready for that emotional kind of step.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Y'all might want to grab tissues, because Halle and I decided to talk about grief today. Because what else do two people who are yappers do but talk about our feelings?
So I guess, like, for me, like, I want to know, like, what made you pick this topic? Why now? All those sort of things? And then we can just jump in.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: So my mom passed away seven months ago, and it. Since she passed away, it has kind of become this sort of recurring topic of conversation and this thing that is. That is really upfront and forward in kind of everything I've been. All the work I've been doing, any of my. It's come up all the time in therapy. It comes up in just regular conversations.
I saw a meme the other day that was saying how you make your dead parents your personality, like, how you don't want to be that person. And I have 100% become the person that has made my dead parents personality without even really realizing it. And it isn't necessarily that. It's. It's that. It's that.
But I have.
I've realized that I have a very intimate relationship with. With death and with grief. And I have. Since I was a little kid, like, I. I didn't need a lot of.
There wasn't a lot of disconnect. I understood what was happening, you know, when my grandparents died or, you know, when a relative passed away, I had a very deep understanding.
And I had a friend. When I told her my mom passed away, she called me a teacher of grief. And it just, like, kind of, like, hit. Hit a weird spot, and I didn't understand it, and I still kind of don't.
And so I'm kind of working through that right now. Personally. I'm working not only through my grief, but what.
What is my. What does it mean to be a teacher of grief for me? What does that look like? And what does my.
What can I help others with through my own experiences with loss and death and grief and shame and all of that?
So that's kind of why I booked this today.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. When you picked this topic, I started thinking about my history with death and grief because I was probably.
From the time I was probably, like, seven or eight, I was obsessed with the concept of dying and would ask my parents, like, but what happens? What's next? Because I come from a very religious family, so everyone's like, well, you know, you go to heaven or whatever. Like, yeah, but, like, what if you don't believe in heaven? Then what? Like, I, from a very early age, was, like, thinking about, like, different realms and, like, different forms of, like, what people think, like, religiously and, like, asking different questions. And now as a person who will say I'm spiritual, but also, like, believes in an afterlife or a next plane, but also, like, people don't cross over right away. Like, they're, like, my witchy brain, too, is, like, really involved in how I concept death. But since I was really young and, you know, as a person who saw and talked to ghosts when she was little and had friends who have that gift, too, and also being obsessed with mediums in a way that might be borderline unhealthy, but I just. I'm like, what happens?
So for you to say all that, like, I started. I started counting. I was like, how many funerals have I been to in my life? And I couldn't even count. Like, from the time I was probably, like, eight. I'm probably well into double digits. Like, we're talking, like a cousin, a grandfather figure, an aunt, my mom, two of my really good friends, people I went to high school with now, both of my mom's parents.
So, yeah, I mean, friends of friends of friends, family of friends. Like, and it's funny because growing up in the church and my God sisters and I talk about this because their dad is a pastor and how none of us really cry at funerals anymore because we've kind of been desensitized to it, if you will. Like, we still, like, obviously know about grief and feelings and all those things, but it's just like, we don't cry as much just because I think we are cried out again. I went to a lot of funerals growing up, but I don't think I had cried until last year. One of my best friends, her brother, died unexpectedly, and I had known him for probably, like, 1015 years.
And so we went. My other friend and I went to the wake, and we just. They're Irish Catholics. It was like a whole situation for a wake. It was four or 5 hours. And so we got there right when it started, and we stayed to the end with her family.
And it wasn't until we left the wake her family had left. They got in the car. I got in the car with my friend who drove us, and that's when I, like, burst into tears. And she was. And my friend, who's known me more than half of my life, she's like, I have not seen you cry this hard in forever.
And I was like, I didn't think it would hit me, honestly. And then I think it just. It did for a number of different reasons. But I have been called, like, my friends call me, like, the grief guide. Like, I.
My mom died in 2006. I was 15, turning 16, and I did not cry at her funeral because my dad was, like, losing it. And it was really, like, in our belief, like, it's like a celebration of life versus, like, grieving their loss. And so I really leaned into that. And, like, if we weren't friends, you didn't know my mom died. Like, I was at school. I think I only missed the day of her funeral, maybe the day after. Cause my dad made me stay home. Otherwise, I just moved through it. And so, like, now, having spoken to friends who have lost parents or friends who are going through grief, of, they have asked me how I moved through it, how I've gotten to a point of.
I think they see it as peace, and I think I've just come to a point of, like, it's a part of life. You get to a point of acceptance.
But I also don't think.
I feel like my mom is constantly with me, and it's been almost 20 years. I think that's also, like, how I help my brain cope with it, too. But, yes, it has been a time. I mean, one of my best friends died in 2014.
He died from an accidental overdose. And he had been clean for a number of months. And so a couple months before, he had relapsed, and we had had it. I can still see. We had a conversation in his driveway, and I was like, you cannot die. Cause I do not know how I would survive it. And I almost didn't. Like, he died. And I spiraled to the point where a friend of mine was like, you're going to die because of your grief. It was just. That was. And this was after my mom. It was just too much for me to handle. To the point I was like, I have to get help. I have to stop drinking.
It was. It was bad. But, like, I think about that version of grief with myself, of, like, that was just like, I was 24, and I was like, I cannot deal with that. So having been a person who's been on both sides of grief, I'm like, it is. I think it's a thing that you learn to maneuver.
And that whole saying, like, it gets smaller. Like, it does. It does get smaller, but it's always there.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: I feel like, in my experience, for me, my grief has never really gotten smaller.
My grief has just kind of. I've just gotten.
I've gotten bigger.
I've gotten bigger. Like, I've gotten.
I've made. I haven't tried to make, like, the space that I keep my grief in. And, like, I always kind of think of it as, like, I mean, here I am. Virgo life. I think of it as a garden, you know? I think of my grief as kind of, like, this thing that I have to constant. You have to constantly tend, and I don't want to ever put that grief in a smaller place. You know, I want to make sure it has.
It has this space, and if that means I have to kind of, kind of grow around it in order to be better, then that's. And in order to carry it better, then that's what I'm going to do, you know, because it never. I I don't know. I feel I have never been like. And after my. My dad died and that kind of really changed my view on the world. And, you know, I think, and we talked about it in the last podcast, like, that nothing is permanent, and we're all kind of on borrowed time, you know? And. And once that. That mindset changed and I started changing my outlook on life, I really started to look into how my grief was the catalyst for that, how my grief was what pushed me into that change.
And I think people want to go back to normal after a loss or change, and there's no such thing because you're different now. You're completely different.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: After.
[00:12:05] Speaker C: After all of that, after your friend passed away. Like, you were different.
Yeah, you know, I was different. I'm different now that my mom's not with me anymore, you know?
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And you. You saying that grief reminds you of a garden? Cause you're a virgo. I always say, like, my grief reminds me of the ocean. Cause I'm a pisces.
And I think of it because it's, like, always moving, always changing. It is vast, it is full, there are pockets, but then also holds things.
So that's how I look at my grief. Of, like, it truly shape shifts depending on who I'm with and what is in the moment, if it's a still moment. Like, I have a tattoo on my body for my mom and for my friend Nick and my grandma. Like, and so, yeah, you saying that just really got me. I was like, yeah, I guess mine is an ocean of, like, I kind of just let it exist and work through itself and move as it feels fit to and then, like, that, too, of, like, the. The getting back to normal.
And, you know, my friend Cody, we talked about grief on his episode. I want to say 2019, 2020.
And how the way I look at grief has always been different than I think most people because I think people are like, if it's an immediate person in your family, they have a lot more space for you. Like, if it's a parent or a sibling or, you know, an actual relative versus, like, when I lost. His name was Nick. When I lost Nick, or when it's like a friend that we just stopped being friends. Like, that form of grief, too, the way people try to, a, they want you to go back to normal, or b, they want you to minimize your guilt. I mean, your grief. Sorry. Because they don't know how to be with you when you're grieving. And so, you know, I always think about these people who say, like, who mean well and say the, you know, everything happens for a reason. Like, you cannot tell me that. Like, I don't believe that. And I never said to anyone who's grieving, I'm just, like, 100% I'm sorry that they are no longer here. Yeah. Like, the, I even think, like, I'm sorry for your loss is too vague. Like, I didn't. They're not lost. I know where they went. Like, they passed. I think it's always been like, people are afraid to name the thing. And so I've been trying to really. And to like, that the, if you need anything or, like, what in that sort of saying, but, you know, like, someone dies and then, like, people are around for, like, maybe two months, and then, okay, people go back to normal. So I always tell people, like, I was like, what do you need in this moment? What can I do for you in six months from now? What can I do for you in a year from now? And if you don't know right now, it's fine. But giving people that space, too, of, like, you can't even think, breathe, focus when you're going through something. And I, and I, and I want more people to give people more space to grieve, because I do. I agree. People want us to just move through it quickly because it's like, you're not, like, quote, meant to be sad. I'm like, no, like this. That's the problem when you don't process it, and it's going to be a lifelong process, then we get to, then I think that's when you get to, like, the unhealthy forms of coping and kind of just shutting down. I think a lot of people don't talk about.
[00:15:36] Speaker C: You know, and it's funny. And I did share with you, so it's interesting because I went to, I went to a wedding in Italy this summer, which was amazing and beautiful and wonderful.
And I was at this wedding, and it was an incredible moment because we were there, and the ceremony was unlike any ceremony I had ever been to in my life. And they talked about, like, kind of the, the step that. That the ceremony of matrimony, like, means and is. And what it means to the longevity of a family and what it means to the. The ancestral line. You know, like, and we were. The place in Italy was my friend Lou's, like, ancestral home. Like, his grandfather was born in this little village in Italy, and so they got married in this little village in Italy. So, like, the tide of the land and the tide of the history in that place was really, like. Like, it was very heavy. And I felt that deep within, like, that kind of tied to. Tied to the people who have come before you.
And then I went. And then I spent a little time in France. I went to Lyon, and I went to this museum called the Confluence museum. And the confluence museum is a science and anthropology museum. And I did share a link with you.
And they have an exhibit about the next steps. They have an exhibit about the beyond and dying.
And at the beginning of the exhibit, they have these little, like, eggs you can sit in and, like, it's like a little echo chamber. Nobody can hear what you're listening to, and you can't hear what anyone else is listening to.
And they have these videos about death, and these. And these scientists and doctors and anthropologists are talking about death in history. They're talking about death as it exists now. And a lot of the conversations were saying that this is a very modern idea. This concept of powering through your grief from moving through your grief is a very modern thing. It isn't something that has ever culturally been a reality, like, in cultures all over the world and, like, capitalism, you know, like, doing the thing to us, you know, making it so that, no, we'll be. You have to get back to work, so kind of gotta suck it up. And it was just really interesting because, I mean, I was even. I was on a vacation, and then. And that story kind of found me. I was. I found this weird story about grief and how other cultures and, you know, historically, we've processed the loss of loved ones and the loss of life and what that. What that means in so many different ways and cultures. And it was so fascinating, and it just kind of.
That's really when I started to realize, like, maybe there is more to this than just my own personal experiences. Maybe it's. Maybe. Maybe I'm not meant to just. Maybe this isn't just about me anymore. Like, you know, maybe I'm a. Like I said, meant to use my. Use what I've gone through to kind of help people and learn more about that process, so.
But, yeah, yeah, powering through is.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah, you saying.
Yeah, you saying the powering through. I don't know.
I watch a lot of television and movies, obviously, as we. As most of us do. But there's two moments that I'm thinking about right now. One is in moon, the show moon night for marvelous. And the other is in the movie irreplaceable. You on Netflix, which, if you haven't watched it, fucking prepare yourself.
But those two movies give the example of sitting Shiva. And coming from the northeast, being around a lot of people who are jewish, I think about that too. Like, Shiva comes from the hebrew word for seven. So it's a week long sitting in your grief.
And I'm like, and then you saying that, like, getting back to work, like, I think about when you're, like, offered bereavement time at work. I think it's like one or two days.
[00:19:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I got three days when my mom died.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: And then if you want to take more.
Yeah, three fucking days. Yeah, sure, sure.
But I think about that too.
And, you know, when my friend lost her brother last, last year, and, like, we went, like I said, we went to the wake and were there with them for that 4 hours. But also, like, the day that he passed, we gave her family space, but later on the day, we, like, we're texting her boyfriend at the time, and he's like, I think you'd be okay if you came by now and truly just like to sit and be with them and just give her support. And, you know, I think about that too. Like, I have friends who come from really big italian families, my family's very big black family, and just being in community and sitting in the grief together. But I'm like, if we just gave people seven. If we. If the. If the default was to give people seven whole days to grieve, yeah, what would that mean for us? And I never thought of, like, that. That it's a modern concept because I'm like, that makes some, like, capitalism truly does control everything, which is annoying to me. But, you know, this is the society we live in.
But, yeah, thinking about that of, like, giving people the time and the space and the resources to grieve.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's funny because my manager even, and it sucked because she was even, like, that is not, like, to me, that doesn't seem like enough time. Like, we give a. We give a family, like, we give somebody, like, at minimum, six weeks to bring a new life into the world. But we don't give anybody the time to let go of that on the other end, like, we don't give people that time, like, when they lose a parent, like a close relative. Like, we don't what? Like, that doesn't make, like, any sense, you know? And, and I fully agreed. And I'm kind of like, wow, okay. Like, hot takes from corporate America, you know? We're all done with it. We're all done with it, guys. Like, what's going on?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Choices. Yeah, choices were made.
I do want to go back and circle back to the, the dead parent as your personality, okay, that you, you gave. Because I have so many thoughts and feelings about this. Okay.
As a person who I was, hell, my mom was, it was chosen six. So in 2009, I think, 2008 or nine, a person told me to get over the fact that my mom died.
I was like, my mother, my literal, the person who birthed me into this world. You were still a teenager at this point, 16 years. Who.
I was 15. My mom died a month before my 16th birthday. I was like, okay. And then it was a person who was one of my friends who I'd known for years, and we got in a really big fight and she was like, you're such a bitch. You need to go over the fight that your mom died. Like, it's been three years. What are you talking about? And I still talk, I still talk to my mom. I still talk about my mom. I'm like, I have friends. My really good friend Megan, she lost her mom, I think, several years ago now.
And we still talk about the grief of that losing a mother specifically and that, like, that, that everything I do and I am will always be attributed to her, even if people don't know it.
And, like, every year for my birthday, I'll, like, ask people on Facebook when the, once a year when I pop on Facebook.
Or like, the. For it's either my mom's birthday and the day she passed, like, say, share whatever memories and photos you may have. Because I was 15, I didn't have anything. And also I was 15. I wasn't like, I was in my own world at 15, right? Like, so this happened when I was, like, not a fully formed human and just saw my mom as my mom, not like a fully formed person herself.
So it's gotten really interesting as I get older, like, how much my family says I remind them of my mother. I noticed that I laugh like her now, which is a really interesting moment in my brain.
But, yeah, that whole the dead parent becomes your personality thing because it's like, I've truly lost a parent. Like, my mother died. My dad and I have no relationship. So I have been also grieving my father, who was still very much alive since 2008, 2009.
So it's that too. But I think it just, I think I'm stuck with the personality part of it. Or does it just inform who you are as a person?
[00:24:38] Speaker C: I feel like.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Or is it the same. It could be the same thing, but.
[00:24:42] Speaker C: I feel like it's, it's almost like, it feels almost like, like a dig kind of, you know, in some ways, like it's that same group of people who want us to keep moving on. Like, they want us to. Like, God, can't you just get over it? Like, can't you just.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: Put it to rest like that this person is no longer with you? Like, you can't do anything about it. And I, and I understand that concept. I understand that mindset of, like, well, you can't do anything about it, so just move on. But it's not that. It's not that simple. You know, when you lose somebody that was literally your life, like, that was, that meant so much to you. It doesn't just, and even when you lose somebody who doesn't mean that much to you. And I, I wish people understood that, too. Is like, you can have, you can have a full experience of grief with somebody that you don't even have a close relationship with, like a, like an estranged parent. You can have that. You can have a fully formed part of your grief with that relationship because of that relationship, because of losing that relationship. And I wish people would. Like, I'm like, man, it's not just, you know, it's not as, it's not this simple thing, you know, it's, it's just not, it's not as simple, I think, as we've been made to believe it is or we're told it should be. You know, it isn't. And we've known that for thousands of years as a species.
But it's only in the last, like, hundred years that we've been told to tough it up.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Well, yeah, and that makes me think, too. Like, you were just talking about that exhibit that you went to of, like, the different cultures and the way they grieve. Like, I'm thinking of, like, the day of the dead in Mexico, too, of like, people who have alters and like I mentioned before with sitting Shiva, of, like, why now and again?
I think you're right. The answer is capitalism. I'm like, why now? Do we expect people to move through this?
Like, in that example, you gave people, we give people six months, well, six weeks to a year, depending on where you live, to become a new parent. But we don't give us the same time as a grownups, like, grieve a life that we've known. Right. So I think it's just all these different concepts of, like, societally, we just don't set people up for success to grieve. And it is such a, I think it is such a disservice to all of us, too.
I sit in the, in the privileged part of, like, I'm in therapy, right? Like, I get to talk about whatever I want to talk about every other week with Britney.
But even then of, like, you know, the day, because for me, it's, you know, the day my mom died is always a really big one for me.
Her birthday is in August, but I have so many family birthdays in August that it kind of, like, is okay to cope with. But I have found that, like, every year in May, I just, like, fall apart the whole month of May. And it was a deep conversation in therapy one day of, like, well, why? And I was like, okay, like, if you look back, because, again, that, like, your body is mostly water. Water holds grief. We hold the memories of all these things. Your body also, you know, keeps the score, as the book says.
And so my mom died in February.
My birthday is in March. We have Nick died in April. My grandmother's birthday is in April. My grandma just, my grandma just died. Well, died in January. My grandfather died in April. Mother's Day is in May. Like, so I think it was just, like, for all of these times, every time grief hit me, it was always between, like, January or whatever. Someone I lost when was, like, January to May was, like, always the really big months. And I think I can't. I think it was May, probably of 2015 was like, the 1 May. I was like, I'm just gonna, like, fucking lose it. Like, I just need to come undone and just be in a hole and just not do anything for May.
And I, you know, now when I interview for a job, they tell them, like, hey, I'm mentally, I just need to know. Like, I have migraines, and May is a bad mental health month for me. So we might have to figure out some ways for me to, like, maneuver around that work from home.
But, you know, being really lucky that I work in nonprofit spaces that are, that typically give that sort of space and understanding.
But I think it was truly me being like, no one's going to give me the time I need to make the time before it destroys me, because I am a person who feels very vastly but knows that I have to set aside time to grieve and time to cry.
The other night on Instagram, I was like, what are your sad recommendations? Because, like I said, I can't just cry anymore. Like, I have to have, like, a trigger to cry now, which is interesting for me. So I'm like, send me all your sad things. And so everyone was asking for mine, and I shared the list, but I'm like, we all weirdly have this. I'm like. I'm like, I'm not talking about comfort shows. I'm talking, like, when you need to cry, what do you watch? And there are so many people who have responses, and I was like, oh, what? Like, a normal human thing of, like, sometimes we just need to cry it out and we know it, and I just don't think we're often given the time or were told to do it in silence.
[00:30:11] Speaker C: Yeah, I.
It's funny you say that. Cause I feel like I cry like this, but, of course, I mean, right now, my losing my mom is super fresh, and her birthday was yesterday.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:26] Speaker C: So, like, real fresh. And you're talking about, like, birthdays and all that. And. And then my birthday is Sunday, so, like. Like, it's this. It's this happy Sadeena sort of thing. And the duality. It is this duality, and I think. And I think so many people want to just be happy. And the reality of happy is that you can't ever have happiness without understanding that there is a sadness that will always be present if you've lived any amount of life, you know, like, any amount of life. Like, I think.
I think that most of us have probably attended too many funerals. I don't know people. I don't know if I know somebody who's never been to a funeral, now that I'm thinking about it. And I don't know what I would, like. What I would do if I met someone who'd never been to a funeral that isn't like a child, you know? Like.
And I mean, like, my mom didn't have a funeral. She didn't. She didn't want one. Mom did not want a funeral. She was like, no, that's.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: That's a.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: That's a production. We don't need. You just, you know, I. Like. She's sitting on my counter. Like, she's. She's right over there. She's. She's fine.
Oh, but it's, um.
She's fine. She's fine. She would tell you she was fine. She were here. I I did. And. And for me, like, processing. Processing all that grief and processing pain and processing sadness and. I mean, just giving yourself space to be sad is such a hard thing to do in the modern world. Like, I can't just be sad. Like, I have to, like, be on. I have to be, like, a go getter and, like, ready to go, ready to work, and, you know, and I had to take three days off of work just in case I was sad. I mean, I'm not sad really. Like, I'm emotional, but I'm not sad. But in case I am sad, like, I don't want to be sad at the office. Like, I don't want people looking at me and be like, why are you so sad?
Like, don't look at me then. Don't worry about me and my sadness. Like, you know, I can be sad and still be myself and still be, you know, here I can be present. I'm gonna be sad. Let me be sad, for the love of God.
I always want to tell people, well.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: That makes me think of, like, it makes me think of the seven stages of grief, which. The number seven is coming a lot up a lot now, which we'll also circle back to the number seven in a minute. But the seven stages of grief of.
I think I'm constantly in the.
I'm stuck between, like, acceptance and anger a lot of the time with my grief of, like, their. Because I was 15, I didn't even, like, know my mom.
And, like, even now, like, when I was in high school, used to get so many people, like, I hate my mom was like, you're gonna regret, like, one day she won't be here. Like, I had so many friends in high school who were just, like, constantly mad at their mom because we're in high school.
Like, anything can happen. Like, and all my friends hate. Like, we get it. I was like, no, but you guys like it. You will never understand it until the day she's gone.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: Like, you just take. You take it for granted.
Yeah. And so, like, now, you know, we're just talking. Like, as a person who's considering having children someday, potentially.
I think it's one of the reasons why I started this show was I have no pictures of my mom. Really. I have no. I don't have the sound of her voice recorded anywhere. And so I was thinking about, like, God forbid, you know, me or someone who's been a guest on this show, like, had a kid or a family member they lost or who lost them, and they can go back and just hear the sound of their voice again. I think that would be, like, very beneficial.
So, yeah, I think for me, like, the anger and acceptance part is, like, there's just. There's. There's moments in my life where I want. I wish I could ask her for advice now. Like, and it's probably happened when I was 18 to, you know, now that I've, you know, 18 on, I just, like, I would just, like. Like, her perspective of this. Like. Like, my mom and I had a very great relationship. I could ask her anything, and, like, I'm really lucky. Like, my aunts, my godparents, like, they're great. It's just, like, you know, sometimes, like, I wish I could just call her and ask her.
And so, yeah, I'm always in, like, that. That anger stage of.
Okay, well, I would love to call and ask her about childbirth. Like, what was my childbirth, like, could she get. Because as a person who has PCos and doesn't know what getting pregnant would look like for me, and she had cancer, so I was the only kid she could have. Like, what does that look like?
And so, yeah, and, I mean, I had a little bit of a cancer scare a couple months ago, and so genetic testing, that's the thing. They'll always, like, both of my parents had cancer. My grandfather had cancer. So it's, you know, these things that we'll have to look out for, but, you know, these weird ways in which I was like, wow, I would love to ask her a question.
So, yeah, I just. I always. I think that's always where I constantly am, like, gratitude that, like, I knew this person and got to experience him, but also, like, anger that it's not. That they're not here anymore.
[00:35:58] Speaker C: Agreed. Agreed.
And I feel that, because I feel like I am. I am always within anger and acceptance. And, like, last week, so my mom.
So my mom died because of complications from a procedure she had that was a routine procedure, and she and the doctor did something during that procedure that he shouldn't have done because of her age.
And before she died, we were talking about, like, taking legal action and found out that before she died, she had signed off on everything. And the lawyers called me and talked to me about what was happening and told me that they were moving forward on behalf of her estate. And it, like, it. It. It fucking wrecked me.
Like, it wrecked me, because I know now I have to give depositions and. And I'm gonna have to relive the hell of the two years before she died.
But there was another aspect of it that it was just. I was so mad that we had to fucking do it in the first place.
You know, like, I was just mad that we had to go through it in the first place. And here we go. This is why we had the tissues out.
This is exactly why we had the tissues out. And it was just like, the internal anger, like, and I thought I was just upset and sad, but I was. I was pissed. I was really mad, like, in the moment. And it takes a lot. It doesn't. I mean, I'm nothing. I don't, I don't rise to anger quickly in situations like that. But, damn, I was furious and just so mad that we, that we even had to get to that point, you know, and that we didn't get. She didn't get the good years that she deserved, that she worked so hard to get. For. To get, you know, she couldn't go and travel and do all the stuff she wanted to do.
It broke my heart completely.
So. Yeah, anger and. Anger and acceptance, man.
You do. And you get to a point when you. When you. When you. When you have an understanding of, of grief and loss, like you and I have kind of talked about, like, like, you just know that this is a part of life. Like, you don't have. You don't go to the funeral and have the emotions at the funeral because that's not where the emotions are anymore.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:43] Speaker C: The emotions are in the time after. The emotions are in the moments after where. Where they're bittersweet because that person isn't there or because something comes up and it upsets you. That's where the emotions are. The emotions are no longer in action. And I think, and I think we've been led to believe that funerals are always this, like, production of grief and emotion. And they're.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a chapter.
[00:39:12] Speaker C: Yeah. And in my experience, they're. They're really not. Like, they're kind of. They're, they're what they are. They're just, you know, a ceremony, you know?
And that's not. And that's not where the work is. That's not where the morning happens. The morning isn't in this one room with group of people because that's not when you. That's not when you're thinking about it as much as you're thinking about them. When you're by yourself or when you're doing something that you enjoy doing with that person, you know, like you're thinking about it at a different time. You're not going to be thinking about that.
You're not going to be mourning in that space as much as I think we've been told or bled to believe. That's where the morning happens, you know?
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting, you sharing everything you said about your mom of, like, the anger aspect, too.
As I've gotten older, I have noticed that my anger, my grief changes you, for sure, but my grief anger leg has also changed, too, because we tried everything at the time, but, I mean, this was 2006. Like, we weren't where we are now medically. And so it's always interesting now, like, whenever I go to the doctor or, like, see all these, like, new things for cancer treatments, I'm. I get angry all over again of, like, like you said with your mom. Like, she didn't. My mom didn't have. Wasn't afforded all these options because that's what we just. We just didn't have it at the time. But even now, like, it still makes me so mad. And it's been almost 20 years.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Wow. It's still. It's still in there. And. And I, and I really want to note that, like, grief does change you. And I think so many people try to, like, bury it and move on, and that's when I think it, like, turns to, like, again, like I said earlier, like, the obsession and the avoidance and the depression levels of it.
And I just, and I just. I still, like, want to name for people, like, you are allowed to grieve for the rest of your life.
Looks like. Like, I think, and I, like you. We've been saying, like, people want you to rush through it. And I'm like, no, my grandfather died in 2008, and my grandma was like, I will never fall in love again. I will never try again. And she didn't pass to 2021, 2022.
She's like, no, I'm good. I had the love of my life, and I will see him again someday.
And so that, too, I just don't think a lot of people even talk about, you are allowed to grieve for the rest of your life, and there's.
There's no window on it. Like, there. You don't earn more grief based off how long you've known someone.
Like, I was I randomly, because as we do, we go down instagram rabbit holes.
But the other day, last night, I was on my phone, and for some reason, the guy, the influencer, Disney exec Dave Hollis, popped up and he died. And he died last year.
And I was like, it felt like longer to me for some reason, but going back and remembering he was dating this woman when he died, and I think they've been together for maybe a year, if that. And she had this whole post on her instagram, and he died. And I was reading it, and I was like this. It was a beautiful, like, letter to him.
But I think about when other people, like, well, you were only together for blah, blah, blah, months. Like, and he died. Like, and I'm like, you don't get to tell someone how much grief they get to have about a thing.
[00:42:53] Speaker C: Like, yeah, you don't. Yeah, you don't get to act like. Like, that time frame wasn't incredibly significant. You know? If you can decide to make a baby with somebody in that amount of time, then you can mourn their loss in that amount of time. Just saying. Just saying, you know?
[00:43:11] Speaker B: Like, yeah, I mean, if that's a.
[00:43:16] Speaker C: Decision you can make in that amount of time, then you can. You can understand what it would mean to lose them in that amount of time, you know, or less.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think about, like, my. My friendship with Nick. Like, we. He's one of my best friends. Like, I was with him all the time, but people didn't see us together. Like, we did, like, random shit together. Like, it was just me and him. And so when he died, and I was, like, devastated at his funeral, one of his ex girlfriends was like, I'm so sorry. Who are you? Like, she didn't know who I was.
And she wasn't asking to be polite. I think she was asking to see why my grief was so big.
And I was like, my name is this.
I knew, like, we've been friends for however long we were friends for.
And it was funny. Cause, like, his brother and I are still really good friends. At the time he came over, he was like, his brother was even like, leave her alone. Like, what are you. What are you doing? But I just think. I think people especially, like being in your early twenties, too. Like, people think that the grief should look a certain way, and I'm. And I'm, again, a big feeler. And I was like, no, my best friend just died. What do you expect me to, like, nothing. Feel things. Because you didn't know. Because you didn't know that we were close.
[00:44:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: You didn't know. Our relationship depths were like, I don't. He didn't need to be the love of my life, my partner. Like, he was one of the love of my life. He's one of my best friends. Like, that. I think people don't understand the depths of a relationship, anything outside of, like, romantic or paternal or familial. And I'm like, no, like, it is. It is okay to field things for a person who you are nothing connected to by, like, relative.
But, yeah, I don't know. I'm not. I'm on a tangent now, but I also just, like, want to name them. Like, you are allowed to grieve, whoever, whatever, pet place, all the things that you can think of. Like, you're allowed to grief. Grief things and just give people that permission. I think so, like, you're saying where people are rushing through or want to minimize in order to get back to normal. Like, you. You will never be normal again.
[00:45:18] Speaker C: No, never.
And I think, and I think that is, for me, like, the thing that really has kind of pushed me forward is realizing that my grief has changed me. And it's changed.
It's changed how I kind of navigate my emotions and how I.
How I see myself in the world, you know? And. And that's. That's been one of the big things. And, I mean, and I, like, I've been writing more. You know, I've, like, I shared a couple of my poems with you. I'm happy to read one of them because it kind of. It kind of sets on what we're. What we're actually talking about right now in this moment.
And I don't have any titles for any of my poems, but, yeah. Like, I mean, really and truly, like, yeah. Writing has been a.
It's been a huge tool for me in processing my feelings and my emotions, so.
And it's kind of been how I've been able to relate to other people through. Through all of this. So I can read one of my poems right now, I think I shared. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:46:42] Speaker B: Go. Listen. Do read as many as you want. I'm here for it.
[00:46:46] Speaker C: All right, well, here we go.
Grief is the most inane act of nature.
It is the catalyst that turns the desert into a monument.
It is slow.
It is fast.
It is the thousands of years of sun that removes water and leaves behind salt and sand that glows in the moonlight.
It is the raging river that cuts through layers of rock, revealing a masterpiece of painted rock over miles of desert.
It is a sudden quaking of the earth that opens portals to previously unknown depths.
Grief shows others what we are truly made of in extreme conditions.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: You have to read the other one, too.
[00:47:41] Speaker C: Oh, this one was hard to write. It's the smallest, the littlest thing, but.
[00:47:49] Speaker B: I know that's why you have to read it. Because it is small, but it was mighty.
[00:47:57] Speaker C: I'm gonna need a minute.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: That's okay.
There's no rush here. I just want. I want the people to hear it.
[00:48:25] Speaker C: The bluebonnets arrived as though you had scattered the seeds, knowing I'd see them blossom without you.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: I love that one so much when I. When you. Not me crying now when you put.
[00:48:50] Speaker C: It in the notes.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: I need a tissue sponsor.
Girl does. Let's do it in there.
Tissue sponsors. For the show. I just send every guest a box of tissues every time they do.
But that. That one got me. And I was like, it's so.
It just shows how much, like, life continues, even when you're grieving. And I'm like, oh, God, it's like fucking Halle. I know.
[00:49:22] Speaker C: I know.
And it was literally every month after she died, because my mom died in February, too. You said that. And I just was like.
Like, here we are.
I hate sharing anniversaries with people like this.
But, like, a month after I was at my office and out the window in the median on the street, the blue bonnets are just. It's bright blue. And I just. I couldn't even hold it together. I'm like, my God. Like, I can't even look at a flower without.
Without thinking of her, because she freaking loved the wildflowers. Like, she loved them so much. Every time she would come and visit, it was. That's pretty much what we would do, is we would drive around and look at the wildflowers.
And she was last. The last time she was in Austin before she passed, she came for our birthdays, which is why this was so important.
And she was here for my birthday and hers.
And, I mean, and that's kind of really where my heart was, is like. I was like, did she push for her to come here for that time? Because she felt something like that. She thought maybe this was it. Like, that she was not going to have another birthday with me.
And it was.
It was.
[00:51:04] Speaker B: It was.
[00:51:05] Speaker C: I really felt it in that moment.
I really felt it when I saw those blue bonnets. I was like, oh, man, there she is.
There she is.
I'll never not look at a.
Like, I go to a. I go to a plant nursery. Like, I'll go to ethos and succulents, and I'm just crying, looking at the plants, and people are like, are you okay?
[00:51:41] Speaker B: I'm like, fine.
[00:51:42] Speaker C: Just leave me alone.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: I'm fine, fine.
[00:51:45] Speaker C: I'm fine. I'm having a moment.
[00:51:47] Speaker B: Just let me live just a lady. Just a lady crying in the garden section. It's fine.
[00:51:52] Speaker C: Just let me live my life, you know?
That's why I wish people would just leave. You know, let me cry. You know?
[00:52:00] Speaker B: Just let me know.
[00:52:02] Speaker C: Let me have my. Let me be sad. Let me be sad.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Well, you. You have. You have plans. My mom was obsessed with Celine Dion.
[00:52:14] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:52:16] Speaker B: Anything I know, anything Celine Dion related, I, like, cry extra hard. And so when Celine Dion got sick, I lost it when she. I still have not watched her documentary because I'm like, I'm not emotionally prepared, so I know it's gonna be a twofold for me.
[00:52:33] Speaker C: Did you watch her performance, though, from the Olympics?
[00:52:36] Speaker B: No. Nope. Sure didn't. I cannot.
I can't. I need to, like, because I know I'm gonna lose it, and I love the Olympics. I truly avoided it. Sounds like I can't. I. I'm in public right now. I cannot watch her.
But, yes, yes, that's. So you have. You have your blue bonnets. I have Celine Dion.
So I'm like. I'm like, extra. I'm extra. Like, I want Celine Dion in the bubble. Like, I need to, like, keep her safe.
[00:53:06] Speaker C: Keep her safe. So I'm gonna tell you, even as somebody who is not as emotionally tied, it was. It was incredible. So you need to get that sponsorship, like, yesterday.
I'm just letting you know.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Luckily for me, I have. I have a backstock. I have a backstock of tissue right now. My. I have, like, a Kleenex in the. In my laundry room, so I might be okay. But one of my best friends, he loves Celine Dion, too. He's like, well, we can watch it together. And I was like, okay, I'm warning you now. It's not gonna be pretty.
[00:53:40] Speaker C: Is that. Are you sure this is something?
[00:53:44] Speaker B: I'm true. I'm like, I can do it alone, but if you're sure you want to be here for the literal sob mess I'm going to be, then that's your prerogative.
[00:53:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: But, yes, as always, thank you so much for coming. I do want to take a quick section before we go, actually, I almost forgot this.
[00:54:05] Speaker C: Oh, God.
[00:54:06] Speaker B: It was funny when I was, you know me, I never do show notes. I was like, you know, off the cuff. I think this is the first show where I, like, actually put in notes in, like, five years, because grief is always. Grief is a big one for me.
And again, we. I believe in separating the artists from the art, and I do this specifically with Harry Potter because JK Rowling is trash.
But you and I, going back about Harry Potter quotes the other day, and knowing that one of the main reasons the author wrote this book was because she was grieving her mother, and how. That's why death is a reoccurring theme. This is why, like, we talk about the veil and the. The mirror of erised and. And all those things, and I have always connected so deeply with the quote from Deathly Hallows. Again, book seven, which. The number seven. We're gonna go play the lottery today. Amount of times we said seven.
But the quote in Deathly Hallows, where it talks about the last brother who greeted death as an old friend and went with him gladly as equals as they departed this life is how I've looked at death in grief, like, the last maybe ten years of my life. Of, like, it's just a part of the thing. It's something that can't be avoided. So I'm like. I'm very much open to receiving grief and death in the fact that it's going to be a part of your life as long as you're living. But then you went with the other two brothers, which I found really interesting, because I think we're just in different places with our grief, right? And so I just wanted to name that and talk about that, because I thought. I found that to be so fascinating.
[00:55:45] Speaker C: I just thought it was. I. Like, I was.
I saw, like, where you were, and then I could see the representation of grief in the other two brothers as well. Like, I could see that there was, like, the last brother who was obviously the one that was a little more emotionally healthy, in my mind, was at that stage of grief where he was open to it. Like you said, you were ready and open for that grief. And with the other two, it was kind of like, you know, there's that denial that. I mean, people go through in their grief. They go through that stage of, like, they don't believe it's true, which is like the brother with the stone. And then I think about the brother with the wand, who is, like, the anger. And we. And we touched a little on anger, but, I mean, our anger wasn't necessarily directed, like, in a certain place. And grief. And like you said, grief can change people.
And sometimes when there's not that healthy place, like those healthy places, like, you see what it does and you see how it destroys. And I don't know if that was where. Where she was going with. With the three brothers at all, but when you brought it up, when you brought up how. How grief, how that felt like grief to you. I started to think about, like, all of the other ways in which that kind of, that trio of brothers kind of represented different stages of grief and how some people get stuck one, and they never move past something. There's never this. This part, part of ourselves that accept what happens. You know, we're always wanting to either go back to the past, or we're always just so angry. And we can never move past the anger towards what could happen, towards that sort of peace of mind and that sort of inner peace that comes when you accept loss for what it is and you accept that your emotions are kind of always going to be. You're always going to kind of cycle through the stages of grief. Even if you've already, even if it's been years, you're going to recycle through them. And it's okay to recycle through them as long as you realize it's a cycle. It's never like you're never stopping at one point, you don't stop at a stage. You move through them. You cycle through them constantly, and that's how you keep going, you know, that's how you keep moving. You know, you never want to just stop in one place.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Constantly moving, constantly evolving, constantly figuring it out.
[00:58:38] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: Well, truly come back anytime, my fellow yapper. There will always be a space on the show for you. Yes, anytime.
The apps. The apps are gonna listen. We're gonna save everything.
I'll be sure to like to link everything in the show notes that I can, but I feel like our palate cleanser question is very needed today. So, as you know, it's a two part question. You get to pick which part you want to answer. But what is the best advice you were ever given? Or what's the piece of advice you would give to your younger self?
[00:59:12] Speaker C: You know, it's interesting because I had another answer when I wrote in my notes, but now I'm actually going to share with you something that my dad shared, and it was something that the best piece of advice I was ever given was from my father. And he said, know your demons.
He said, know them, understand them, because that's the only way you're ever going to be able to walk through them and have a better life.
And my dad had a lot of demons. And, yeah, I think that knowing and understanding what could hurt you or what scares you and not running from it is really important.
And so I try every day to know my demons, to know the things that scare me.
[01:00:12] Speaker B: That's it for this week's episode of the Tea with Brie. Be sure to follow the podcast on Instagram. He send me an email at the teawithbriemail.com or visit the website the teewithbreepodcast.com dot. You can find me your host, Brianna Jenkins on Instagram. Rhianna Jenkins don't forget to rate, review and follow on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A special thanks to Mama Duke for RD music and I will catch you next time. Bye.
